🎙️ Motif Labs CEO Mario Naric
Canada's largest private LP has quietly built a C$90M+ Revenue business with double-digit EBITDA and the #1 vape brand, BOX HOT.
Summary:
Motif started as an extraction company but quickly built its own brands soon after
Each brand targets a distinct demographic with differentiated hardware and formulations
Motif leads the Canadian market with 20% vape and 10% pre-roll share through strategic programming and 30+ territory managers visiting 3,500 retailers monthly
Quality control after hardware failures, rigorous product testing through machines and a 30-person panel
How data informs SKU rationalization
How the company handles competitors playing the price game but responds intelligently
Growing market share in Canada through innovation while cautiously exploring international markets like Australia
Background:
Motif Labs is a leading brand house shaping Canada’s cannabis 2.0 market with a portfolio of iconic brands, including Boxhot (#1 cannabis vape brand in Canada), DEBUNK, Boondocks and Rizzlers. With a focus on developing cannabis products that consumers love and demand, Motif is profitable and has a 22% market share in the vape segment and 7.5% in the infused pre-rolls segment since launching in 2017. Motif also provides contract manufacturing and white labelling services to cannabis businesses from its fully licensed extraction facility in Ontario, Canada.
Mario's cannabis journey began in 2017 when he founded Motif Labs with a vision to define high standards of excellence and to create products that leave a lasting impression.
Brands:
Transcript:
0:17 - Mario Naric (Motif Labs)
My background professionally is that I'm a process engineer. I spent my career in oil and gas, working on refineries from a technical standpoint. And I did also do a stint in management consulting. But I saw an opportunity in Cannabis. It's coming on eight years ago now, where somebody sent me a pitch deck about one of the earlier LPs. And in that pitch deck, I learned that the legislation was opening up for adult use and medical use of cannabis. I had no idea at the time.
And a buddy and I at work decided to take a couple weeks off, went down south, went to Oregon, Washington, and realized, holy cow, the Cannabis industry is so much more than just buying bud from your local dealer. Like they already had the vapes, the drinks, the edibles. And through that, we realized that extraction is at the heart of anything that isn't flower based. And given our background in oil and gas, the skill set was there, right?
So, you know, the initial pitch for MOTIF was that we were just going to be a cannabis refinery, right? We're going to take low quality cannabis, we're going to extract it for folks, flip it into bulk oils, toll process, make bulk products. We very quickly realized that we needed to understand how to get products to shelves and moved into a private label model.
And for a while, we were, primarily driving our business by licensing U.S. brands, legacy Canadian brands, and bringing them to market. And then in that process, we also realized that we like our own products. And we happen to have our own ideas. Through starting this business, I learned that I have a passion and a talent kind of determining my own entry into the market. Fast forward a couple of years, we're predominantly an internal brand host now. We have the #1 vape brand in Canada, we're the #2 LP infused pre-rolls the sixth largest LP, the #1 private company. So it's been a wild ride to get here, but. we're super excited about what we've accomplished in the last few years.
2:17 - Dai Truong (Arlington Capital Advisors)
Yeah, I think what's interesting for me is you saw this opportunity so early in your career, because you're a young guy. So was that a year or two after graduating from University that you kind of saw this opportunity in cannabis and also being that young, how did you feel comfortable taking that leap into this industry?
2:35 - Mario Naric (Motif Labs)
No, it's a good question. I've been working probably for four years between internship and full time, but I was definitely very young. When I saw the opportunity I was 24, when I took the leap, I was 25, I'm now 31. It's a great question.
I think the reason I was very comfortable was in my explorations and what this industry is. I met a lot of LPs and I had a bunch of job offers that were dream jobs for me that were a lot more interesting than working in oil and gas. So I knew that if I fell flat on my face and didn't succeed, that I could go move to B.C. and start an extraction lab. And that's infinitely more exciting than working at an oil and gas company.
So I had this entrepreneurial spirit and drive. And my downside risk was pretty low from my view because back then there weren't a lot of engineers jumping ships to try to help move the industry along. And so it was, but nonetheless, it was scary. It was a big deal. I think part of being young is that you're naive. And I think being naive helped me get to where I am today.
3:40 - Dai Truong (Arlington Capital Advisors)
Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. So tell us about the first few years. How did you guys go about starting the company and where did you get to the point where you felt comfortable in raising outside capital?
3:50 - Mario Naric (Motif Labs)
Yeah, so when we started off, there were a couple of founders who lost there. I'm the remaining Founder now, but to skip over that. Early on, we had a seed investor that funded a small round, $400K. And what that allowed us to do was secure a facility and start paying some consultants to assist us in writing the application. And back then, once you got the application to a certain point, Health Canada would say, look, on paper, this looks good. If you can build it, you'll get a license. And that milestone was what we used to raise a larger round.
And so this angel investor took a shot on us out of the blue on the $400K, and then we shopped around for the better part of a year, our business model, talking to anybody and everybody until we met, you know, through random assortment of connections, met our current investor group. That's been with us since and have been financing us since.
4:48 - Dai Truong (Arlington Capital Advisors)
That investor group, what was their background?
4:53 - Mario Naric (Motif Labs)
They're a high net worth group that invest together in a number of opportunities. So, you know, they operate a little less formally than your typical VC, but it's all over the map. We have, we have folks that run massive restaurant businesses. We have people in financial services, manufacturers, And so, you know, I'm very fortunate in the investor group that we have that's been very supportive and funding us as a private business.
5:19 - Dai Truong (Arlington Capital Advisors)
And has that kind of helped you over the past six years through some turbulence in the industry that we've all seen?
5:30 - Mario Naric (Motif Labs)
Yeah, I think there's a couple of elements that have helped us, right? I think being a little bit later allowed us to kind of kick off the business without making any major mistakes. We never had to build inventory on speculation. We always built to service actual demand. And so we kept a very tight ship. I think having really savvy investors who are motivated by building a good business versus trying to make a quick buck on the boom of cannabis was extremely helpful for us in keeping us focused and focused on profitability. And then definitely like as we went through the years, we performed as a business which made raising money relatively simple with this group because we were delivering the results. They had the capital and those two things kind of combined to keep us moving through like when we got the cash flow positive essentially.
6:21 - Dai Truong (Arlington Capital Advisors)
Yeah, and I just want to go back to the beginning of the company once again, you guys started out and I think you're still very a B2B company, but what does that mean? And help us understand since most of the audience is more so in the U.S. So rather than sort of producing your products and then selling it wholesale, it seems like you guys sell it to the retailers as an LP yourself and then you're really B2B. You're not touching the consumer so much.
6:50 - Mario Naric (Motif Labs)
Yeah, no, fair enough. We have slightly different definitions up here, but you know, when I mentioned B2B, meant you know, initially we were manufacturing products for other LPs. We weren't commercializing our own brands, but now we're predominantly a company that has our own brands, has our own products. We do sell those to the provincial distributors and then the provincial distributors move them into retail. And when I kind of mentioned B2B, I mean we shifted from that bulk oil model to generating our own brands and moving them through to retail. We don't own any retail of our own. We just ship to the distributors.
7:26 - Dai Truong (Arlington Capital Advisors)
And what's your coverage in Canada? Help us understand how many retailers there are and how many you're in and what your penetration looks like?
7:34 - Mario Naric (Motif Labs)
Our penetration is very high. mean, BOXHOT is the #1 vape brand in the country, #2 infused brand in the Country. With that brand, nationally there's 3,500 retailers. And I would say kind of, at any given moment, over 90% of them carry at least one of our BoxArt products, which is massive. It's super exciting when I go into the middle of nowhere into a shop and just still see BoxArt. And then kind of when you look at our best SKUs, our top vapes are 60, 70% distributed. So we have great penetration there and the retailers are big fans of our brands.
8:08 - Dai Truong (Arlington Capital Advisors)
From a purchasing standpoint, there's a couple of larger retailers, High Tide. You've seen retailers sort of have 75 to 150 locations, which are comparable to the U.S. MSOs. A lot of them, though, seem like they're more one-off, mom&pop shops, or they have several locations. From a purchasing perspective, is that success attributed towards distributors, or where do you see that success coming from, or is it consumers pushing for it?
8:34 - Mario Naric (Motif Labs)
It's a combination several things that have to go well. A lot of things have to go right. I think in Canada, we have the luxury of government managed distribution, So we only have to shift to one center per province, and then the retailers order from there. So that's a little bit easier for us to manage. But in terms of getting that penetration, you do have to service both the major accounts like High Tide, as well as the independents. I think that's where our team has gotten very intelligent. Because our brands are so strong, we have a seat of the the table with these big retailers and we can have, you know, strategic conversations about ensuring our assortment is ending up there and we can support them and secure that distribution. So our brands brought us to the table with the big retailers, but they also brought the consumers to the stores asking for BOX HOT, which allows us to have a lot of organic uptake based on just the product quality and the affinity and the hype of the brand. And then finally, I mean, we deploy this Hybrid sales model where we have a sales agency that employs 20 territory managers nationally and we have 12 of our own. So we have 30 people visiting, on average a hundred stores a month. So if you think about it, we're visiting all the top tier stores a couple times a month and we're having 3,000 interactions/month where we can tell our story, really show the product and make sure that these retailers understand we exist. And that's extremely important because there are so many skiers in Canada and the retailers need to be told about your product for them to list it.
10:09 - Dai Truong (Arlington Capital Advisors)
Is that a lot of bartender training and education or is that also doing these customer appreciation, where you have someone at the table at a dispensary for a couple hours a day? What sort of activities are they doing?
10:21 - Mario Naric (Motif Labs)
You know in Canada because we can't do the traditional type of marketing right in terms of you know I wish I could just have a team managing SEO and you know digital ads and we can't right so you know you do have to win over the right like they have to believe in your product they have to want to talk about it because one of your biggest opportunities is somebody comes in and says hey give me a big vape it's like well BOX HOT’s that vape right hey give me a strong CBD oil, it's like Floresense is your solution to that and so you really need them to buy in that's a priority and then we supplement that and you know our territory managers these 30 folks they do pop-ups right and they sit there and they and they talk to people about our brands as we enter and then offline we run very targeted events to kind of really bring people in and and get them into the brand ethos and have more. or a consumer centric combo too.
11:09 - Dai Truong (Arlington Capital Advisors)
Some of your brands sort of offer similar stuff, right? if I'm just thinking about BOX HOT, it’s your #1 brand, like DEBUNK also has vapes. So is it sort of covering different price points, targeting different consumers Help us understand a bit more about the portfolio beyond just BOX HOT.
11:27 - Mario Naric (Motif Labs)
Yeah, no, absolutely. It's very targeted. We have five brands in the market right now, one which is kind of being optimized. The big ones that are kind of really zero into right now are BOX HOT, DEBUNK, Rizzlers. And Rizzlers is our latest launch that just went live nationally. So with BOX HOT really, what we're trying to do is, we were the first 1.2 gram, chunky vapes, big blunts, big flavors, not overly fixated on the technology like live resins, those niche product lines. We're trying to deliver really fun, loud, big and flavorful products with that brand. And we really always innovating on the format and the hardware that it's in. And that's bringing in very specific type of consumer. It's not a value brand by any means. In fact, it's not a low price distillate. It's got that affinity because it's got great hardware, great branding, great flavor. With DEBUNK, what we're trying to do is be more technical, right? And we're trying to bring people liquid diamonds, which is like 93% THC base. And we're going to be sharing those certificates of analysis to prove that we're making this THCA. We're bringing 50% THC infused blunts that are backed by a certificate of analysis. it's a lot more of a high-tech brand that's catering more to a consumer that really cares about the strain and the technology and pushing the envelope. And then Rizzlers is for Gen Z, in the younger crowd, a crowd that doesn't really have an understanding of what Canada should be. I mean, cannabis has been legal for years. lot of these people have been adults only in a legal environment, right? so that's all about. We have a closed loop vape system that we just launched. That is our entry into a low basket price. And we're really looking to bring them function form. And with a focus on engineering products, the basket price is very acceptable for them. And so we're really trying to bring different types of people in. And it's not just vape. Our key categories are vape and infused pre-rolls.
13:28 - Dai Truong (Arlington Capital Advisors)
What are the other brands? So there's Boondocks. And then you mentioned there was a brand as well, which I'm not seeing on the website.
13:34 - Mario Naric (Motif Labs)
Yeah. Floresense is as our initial brand, you wouldn't see that on the website. Really, what that was was a CBD centric brand that I used as something to show our board that we can make a brand successful. And it was a non-competitive brand with any of our clients. That brand is getting reworked into just an oil brand. We're going to be delivering minor cannabinoids at a very aggressive price. It's a really small part of our portfolio. But it fits a specific kind of medical niche for us as we expand. and some of these medical platforms. And Boondocks is our more recent brand where we've set up that platform for this year. Motif is going to be going big into live resin. So, you know, we crack liquid diamonds, we're making highly potent vapes. And this year we're quadrupling our hydrocarbon capacity, and we're gonna be doing really nice live resin products, really true to plant type production. And Boondocks is going to be a home for those products. So you can expect to see Boondocks growing a lot this coming year.
14:29 - Dai Truong (Arlington Capital Advisors)
I want to have two follow up questions on that. So first one being, you know, from a product standpoint, a trend standpoint, are you paying attention to what's going on in the U.S. with sort of if you use pre-rolls and then also live resin, or do you kind of go at your own pace and you trust your local market in Canada? How do you just decide what products to innovate on?
14:50 - Mario Naric (Motif Labs)
No, it's a great question. I mean, it's all the above, right? Like, you know, with a help fail, we definitely look to the US. I personally go to the US. At least once a quarter with the specific intent of visiting the stores and speaking to the contenders, going to trade shows, whatever it is. Whether it's me, my Creative Director, my Head of Innovation, we hit the trade shows and we hit the stores and we have these conversations ourselves, both in the US and in Canada.
So we amalgamate all of that data. One thing that's super exciting is that we got to where we got to based on just intuition and a lot of our key people being consumers themselves, including myself. And where we're going to go is the way that we leverage data now is completely different. When you get into infused pre-rolls, is it five-pack? Is it a ten-pack? Is it a three pack? we take a combination of amalgamating data on the street with our 30 TMs. We run surveys every month to talk to our budtenders and consumers. We head to the states and look at what are some industry leading trends, generally speaking, you guys have been ahead. And then we go look at the data to understand how to optimize MSRP and format. You know, and that's how we make these decisions.
16:03 - Dai Truong (Arlington Capital Advisors)
On that data point. What data sources do you look to?
16:08 - Mario Naric (Motif Labs)
Right now we're using a number and we're really kind of building this data lake so that they can they can stack on top of each other Right, so you know high fire is a really good data source for national sell through the provinces themselves give us sales data to varying degrees of You know detail You we're able to get data through some of the major retailers as well Where we decide to opt in to get that data? Then we have Sources that kind of scrub the internet to make sure that we know Where our inventory is, which retailers are moving the most volume, which ones like we have distribution data? And so when you kind of amalgamate all of that you can you can get very targeted on product format and like sales strategy And where to focus your efforts
16:53 - Dai Truong (Arlington Capital Advisors)
Yeah, Hifyre was what I figured you'd be using so glad you mentioned that one and then falling. The second question I had was around hardware. Just from what I looked at, It seems like the closed loop system is the C CELL. Seems like there's varying hardware options that you use. Can you tell a bit more about which of the hardware providers you use and why?
17:15 - Mario Naric (Motif Labs)
Yeah, look, I mean, we partnered with a lot of them. We've had a longstanding relationship with C CELL. I mean, I think that's just circumstantial and they have a strong showing early days and we have good relationships there. And we've developed a really nice partnership specifically with Jupiter. Locally, we're really close with Green Tank. And so for us, really, boils down to finding something that's unique and interesting. With BOX HOT, we took a very early C cell product. was very big, chunky, provided huge vapor and it really fit the brand in terms of taking it to the next level. Like in Canada, where we can't do what you can do in the States with packaging and advertising, like hardware is a moment that you need to exploit in terms of building brand affinity. It's this thing that has its own set of regulations where you can have a lot of fun. So what we do is we take, we have very robust testing. mean leaking, clogging, these are non-starters, right? And so we have to pick vendors that can provide us with that quality and their test results that match our own test results. And then we push the envelope and try to take those designs to the next level.
You need to have design and quality intersect. The days of launching products that are like a black duck bill, 510, v1, Gen1 hardware, they're over, The market's saturated and you really need to tell a different story.
18:36 - Dai Truong (Arlington Capital Advisors)
So does that mean you have some that are sort of proprietary to you and customized for you or are there other brands using some of the hardware? How does that work?
18:46 - Mario Naric (Motif Labs)
So for Canada, what we've done is we've jumped on models that were off the shelf generally. But they were very unique in early models and we've grabbed exclusivity for our market, which has allowed us to kind of protect that. So like when you look at the you know, Rizzlers’ pod system, we've got access to that for Canada. You look at our BOX HOT vape, we got access to that for Canada exclusively.
And now we have a ton of, well, not a ton, but we have some very targeted innovation with a few vendors that are going to be exclusive to us globally, that are pushing that envelope even further. So now that we have our size and we have our pipeline, we're working with these vendors to take hardware tech to the next level and protect that for ourselves, on a global scale.
19:26 - Dai Truong (Arlington Capital Advisors)
Did you say you had exclusivity for the Rizzlers, which are the DART Pods?
19:33 - Mario Naric (Motif Labs)
They're not DART Pods. They're a different model, you know, but we do have exclusivity for that model within Canada as well as the RA 100.
19:42 - Dai Truong (Arlington Capital Advisors)
Yeah, I'm glad you clarified that. It looks very similar to me, but you know the specifics. It kind of makes sense if you're one of the leading, you know, market share for Canada, that see self should be giving you some exclusivity because you're helping to kind of build that model and it should be exclusive to BOX HOT.
20:00 - Mario Naric (Motif Labs)
It's a partnership, right? Building a closed-up system's not going to be easy, but what we've done is we've set it up so that we looked at where it was successful and where it failed. And it's very successful in a few markets down south, as you know, with some of the brands you've seen. It's very successful in the nicotine space in terms of being able to set that up as a brand differentiator, where it wasn't successful, where it was way too expensive, too complicated, trying to deliver an overly premium and complex product. What we're really leaning into is like, it's not a closed-loop system for the sake of a closed-loop system. It's helping bring Rizzlers to life, which is a brand for a younger generation that wants something that stands out in the crowd. So we've taken that baseline design and we've taken it up like 10 notches and made it our own. And it's a very high-quality unit that we've tested and optimized with C CELL and our own team. So really excited to be bringing that to market. The response has been awesome. National launch starting this week.
21:00 - Dai Truong (Arlington Capital Advisors)
Yeah, what's interesting to me is each of your brands really have very differentiated vape hardware. What was the thinking there vs. saying, hey, you can have sort of the same closed loop system or 510 across multiple of our brands. I know it's very targeted at different audiences, but some might think for unit economics, you may just pick one form factor across all brands. So, you know, walk us through that thinking.
21:27 - Mario Naric (Motif Labs)
Yeah, again, I mean, I think it's like, especially in Canada, mean, hardware for Vapes. Hardware is just such a moment to really tie a brand together, right? I view Vape hardware as an accessory. You've got your phone, you've got your AirPods, you've got your keys, and then you've got your Vape. it's like on the desk with you, and it says something about who you are. And it's more than just a delivery mechanism. It's brand affinity, right?
And it's like, you know, each of these brands is servicing a very different niche. BOX HOT is loud, boisterous, right? Big. And that's paired with a massive piece of hardware that stands out against the crowd. DEBUNK is a lot more laid back, and it's a lot more sleek, and it's a lot more nonchalant and not in your face. It's looking at sleeker products, and that's paired with a nicer unit that's a little more discrete. And then Rizzlers is all about fun, right? This thing clicks in with a magnet. It’s see through plastic. It's got drips falling off of the mouthpiece. You can see into the internals of the battery, and you can see that digital element, almost like an old school N-64. And so we really use hardware to drive home who this product's for, and you need differentiation there.
22:37 - Dai Truong (Arlington Capital Advisors)
I guess to clarify my question. It was more, you know, to think about something that's very popular right now, like Stanley, right? It is that accessory that says something about you based on the design or the cloud that you've chosen to buy. But essentially, like, there's a few different tumblers. It's just different colors and different images on it, whereas you guys, that would be like building the Stanley, the YETI and a ton of other options, all at the same time. So it's many more SKUs I would say.
23:07 - Mario Naric (Motif Labs)
Yeah, but I mean, it pays off. If we use the BOX HOT hardware in another brand, we'd be competing with ourselves. On the closed loop, I think that's the only area really to zone in on. 510 is a pretty ubiquitous cartridges and can be used with a lot of batteries, though we've put paradigms with batteries. The decision to keep our closed loop system for ourselves for the time being is really, again, it's a feature of that brand. Well, we collaborate with brands that have a similar target demographic in the future and really build some hype maybe. But right now for us, we want to leverage that as a key feature of being in the ecosystem. We've got a lot of support from the provincial buyers. We've launched a record amount of flavors on day one so that we can give our customers diversity in terms of selection, they are going to that battery.
23:57 - Dai Truong (Arlington Capital Advisors)
That makes sense. Well, let's talk about Well, you know, where you guys are at. So help us understand the size of the company and beyond to sort of your market share. Anything you can provide that can help us understand this. The number of employees, revenue, profitability, anything like that, that you can share with great.
24:13 - Mario Naric (Motif Labs)
Yeah, for sure. I mean, I'm happy to share some of those numbers. We're very proud of them. You know, we closed the year off last year, you know, hitting nearly $90 million on the year, on the calendar year. You know, we were just shy of double digit EBITDA, no adjustments, you know, true, even though that, you know, is fueling us as a profitable business. You know, we closed the, you know, we had north of 20% share of market in babes, you know, close to 10% share of market infused pre-rolls and, you know, sitting with about 300 employees, you know, in 125,000 square feet of manufacturing. So, you know, we're the number #1 private Cannabis business in Canada. And we're, you know, the sixth largest overall with really, and I think one thing to really underscore is we've done all that with, self-participating in any flower or non-infused pre-rolls, which still represent over half the market up in Canada. So we're really zoned in on those high growth categories and really trying to own those.
25:15 - Dai Truong (Arlington Capital Advisors)
So what do you guys pay attention to then? What's on the horizon? Is it continuing to gain market share in Canada, go international, whether that's Europe or U.S. or elsewhere? What do you focus on for this year?
25:27 - Mario Naric (Motif Labs)
Yeah, look, I think when you look at where we are, for one, we spent a lot of time on vapes and absolutely MOTIF’s, the leader of vapes , we're going to be growing that. Rizzlers is our kick at the can of something very unique and exciting. And we believe we're the right people to push the industry forward past five, ten and make some noise there. We're also going to those live resin vapes in Canada. So we're going to definitely be expanding how we address vapes . But the major category for us is going to be infused pre-rolls, right? We're just getting started there.
We have a lot of very exciting innovations. have to be very strategic. have to partner with somebody that understands that market that can help us unlock how to sell in that market. We need to impose our manufacturing standards as well to be certain that we're manufacturing them to our standard. And so we're exploring, we're having conversations, and we're going to be very strategic because look, it can end up being a big distraction and a big cost. Right? But we can't turn our backs on it. And so really for us, it's just the right partners, right state, right time. That's critical, right?
Internationally, we are looking with some local companies here that have a GMP license and we're starting to explore shipping bulk products to Australia and Europe. Very much on the radar, very much not in our forecast, something that we can definitely start participating in with 2024. And then 2025, I believe, is where we'll have very concerted efforts to take that a little more global.
27:52 - Dai Truong (Arlington Capital Advisors)
And, you know, since we're talking about the U.S. and sort of going from a big brand into more of a pre-roll brand or you'd ask me more just I can this brand in general, I want to ask you, who do you think are your competitors? Like, you know, give the brands that we know here. Like, who do you kind of say, hey, you know, we're competing with these guys in vapes. If we came to the US, we're competing with these guys with these pre-rolls, which I think I have an idea. But who do you think are those competitors? Should you come to the US?
28:17 - Mario Naric (Motif Labs)
Oh, in the US. Yeah. I mean, look, Stiiizy, Stiizzy's definitely up there on the closed loop. They're the ones that have been able to commercialize it in their own way, in a way that's meaningful. I think we've learned a lot from their approach, and then we've learned a lot from our own approach, and we've taken that into account.
On the infused pre-roll side, you know, on the vape side, it's pretty fragmented, right? Like, I think you guys have very strong live resin brands, right? And so if we were to enter that, we'd have to be very thoughtful. On the distillate side, I mean, it's your typical suspects, right? That are the big MSO brands that have wide, multi-state distribution. And I think what we bring to the table is... There is that our brands are very thoughtful and they're well thought out and they're not just slapping another squirt of distillate into a faceless cartridge. We really dial our formulations or look.
On the infused pre-roll side, you guys are fantastic at it down there. Those guys have about a couple of years. Jeter's is really strong. We'd be looking to set our own internal standard of quality because they came and hit it pretty hard. it'd be the top players that everybody knows down there that you have to keep an eye out for. But I think we could also bring our own flavor to the game. I think Rizzlers as a closed-loop system is very different than what you guys have seen through the likes of Dosist, PAX. We're definitely not competing with them. We're in our own category, I would say.
29:46 - Dai Truong (Arlington Capital Advisors)
Yeah, I think from what you're telling me, it sounds like you wouldn't come in unless you could win market share and be in a leading position in many states. You wouldn't come with a certain category or a certain state unless you could find that right partner and actually take market share.
30:01 - Mario Naric (Motif Labs)
Absolutely. I think it's like, how do we partner with, let's say, maybe it's a vendor of ours? Like, how do we find something that's more than just like a white label relationship where both companies are incentivized to push this brand? I mean, and that can come through our hardware vendor relationships, which all have some access to manufacturing. You really have to stack a few benefits combined with a lot of trust and a lot of understanding of a market. You cannot just slap a label and hope for the best. I mean, you'll end up losing money very quickly that way.
30:32 - Dai Truong (Arlington Capital Advisors)
Yeah, and actually, I want to go back to some of you mentioned earlier. You said coming down here to kind of test up the market with trade shows on a quarterly basis. What markets do you go to get some observations? Where do you look for some of these trends? Is there a certain city or a certain State? Is it a mixture that you kind of pay attention to?
30:52 - Mario Naric (Motif Labs)
Yeah, I mean, for us, it's the ones that tend to host the big shows. Because then we're able to kind of look at a few different states. But I mean always California for sure, you know, California, I just love that as a brand state regardless of cannabis. so we definitely look to California, Arizona, We have a good pulse on Colorado, Oregon and Washington are a little bit interesting and you know, a little bit more fragmented. they all have, you have to take it with a grain of salt too, right? mean, everything is different, you know.
California is very anti-distillate. There's a lot of high quality small growers that have been able to make really solid live resin. Our supply chain is way different here. So to expect our live resin market share to be as high as California is a bad assumption without some critical thinking, for example, right? So you go down there and understand why it's working. And do we have the infrastructure in Canada to support their why? And if so, then we start exploring it.
But now, honestly, man, Canada has come such a long way that in some ways we actually set the standard as well. So I feel like we're caught up where regulations allow us to be. Now can you get ideas? Yes. Can they get ideas from Canada? Absolutely like we are no longer behind other than edibles But elsewhere we're up to speed
33:08 - Dai Truong (Arlington Capital Advisors)
You know that is that more so just the packaging that though we mentioned there's you know Oddsy very attractive packaging options you can do with gummies because once or I guess endless in general But once you get in for the most part, they're similar enough the packaging is kind of what differentiates You know a wild down here from like a KANHA or a key but right?
33:52 - Mario Naric (Motif Labs)
Yeah, packaging for sure, but I think the biggest thing right now is Canada's limited us to 10 milligram dose and we all know that that's like non sufficient I would say that's the one regulation that I feel like is just you know holding a lot of sales in the black market because as you know your typical consumer is looking for 50 to 100 and to buy 50 to 100 in Canada across 5 to 10 packs is extremely expensive and Inconvenient right so it's really the regulatory environment that is the press edibles for us You know I think We overcame that packaging would slow it down, but I mean, it's a level playing field on packaging. So you just have to win on product, flavor and brand execution.
34:08 - Mario Naric (Motif Labs)
And since we're comparing U.S. vs. Canada, how do you feel about where the Canadian LPs that are publicly traded versus some of the MSOs down here that are publicly traded? Yeah. And that's to kind of ask you further down the line from an exit opportunity standpoint. You know, you've probably been approached by some of your competitors that you're taking market share from those that are publicly traded, have liquid stock, and have been able to raise massive amounts of capital. So where do you kind of, you know, look at Canadian companies doing better that are publicly traded versus US companies that are publicly traded doing better?
34:18 - Mario Naric (Motif Labs)
I think it's a two part question. I think like who's going to become that major player that really kind of commands a stable market share globally? I think that's entirely TBD, right? Like I think there is, I don't know that I could peg anybody is that right now, because there's so much change, right?
Two years ago, MOTIF didn't even exist and now we're on the top charts in Canada. For example, it's a private business that didn't raise billions of dollars. So you don't know who that person's going to be and who that business is going to be. I think it's going to be the company that, I think these big MSOs and cannabis companies, they're making big moves to cut costs, but that's only going to take you so far. Then you got to acquire your way into strong brands and market share and growth. And I think that right sizing is all happening right now. And so I think it's going to be those big balance sheets that pick the right brands and technologies that have figured out how to make profitable products at scale that are going to come out on top.
In terms of our exit strategy, for us, it's all about execution, build a good business. And I think that brings you to a good solution. But ultimately, for us, its going to have to be very strategic. When you talk about international, somebody with a bigger balance sheet with international reach, with a lot of brand experience, to take what we've been able to hone and perfect in Canada and really blow it out on a national scale, I think is going to be critical. Whether that's Cannabis, Tobacco, CPG, Alcohol, [it] really just boils down to that strategic alignment to take what MOTIF’s figured out in cannabis and run a profitable business in an extremely challenged market and take all of that brand equity and that manufacturing expertise and take it to that next level.
36:00 - Dai Truong (Arlington Capital Advisors)
And on that brand point, how do you guys measure where you are as a brand? So a good example in the U.S., everyone points to this. Okay, you have cookies, they make a ton of money on Merch. Obviously, that's a very unique situation. But how do you guys measure where the brand is and how big it's getting?
36:19 - Mario Naric (Motif Labs)
For us, market share is pretty key. And being able to accomplish market share without massively subsidizing your pricing is also very impressive. There are a lot of people that blip onto the radar in Canada and they play the price game and they finance their way in the market share. What we really look for is that organic affinity. You obviously have to invest in your brand and you have to have the value versus the price has to be there. But none of our products, for example, BOX HOT are anywhere near the floor, yet they command massive market share. To us, that's a true testament of consumers loving the product for what it is, not because it's the new cheap, shiny object. That's a big thing for me.
I think also obviously distribution and an ability to retain that distribution. I think interaction on social media is key for us. It's tricky here because there are so many SKUs, there are so many products, but we even look at how many flavors are you carrying of our product lines. A non-recognizable brand is lucky to get a flavor or two in a store. Like, BOX HOT nationally has 6, 7, 8 flavors per store. And it's because these consumers are asking for it. So there's a number of ways we look at it. It's extremely dynamic, right? you know, BOX HOT is one of those handful of brands in Canada that's reached that like, transcended that like, and it's a brand, it's a staple brand. Our other brands, we're still pushing them and getting them there through innovation and they're a little bit earlier in their cycle, but they will get there as well.
37:51 - Dai Truong (Arlington Capital Advisors)
What has worked really well for you guys to kind of accelerate that using a similar playbook, but on a faster timing.
38:07 - Mario Naric (Motif Labs)
Yeah, no, it's a great question. You know, I think on average, you know, what MOTIF looks to do is embrace that cannabis is fun, right? Like cannabis is a social product. It's a fun product. You know, I think a lot of people went ultra wellness, which I think has its place and, you know, we participate in it, you can't hang your hat on it. And then a lot of people went ultra legacy, which also has a place, but you know, what MOTIF has figured out and who we are as a company is like, you know, mainstream cannabis, fun cannabis, like social, and it's what cannabis was for me, right? Like I've been around it since high school, you know, for me, it's like smoking a joint going for a bike ride. Like that's that's the vibe, right? And so I think we're trying to harness fun, but we're trying to harness it in different ways for people. Whereas Boondocks is for kind of somebody that's more of the adventure and outdoorsy, you know, BOX HOT is just loud, obnoxious, party. And Rizzlers is kind of, you know, similar but for a different age category. On the innovation side, I think it's just being very thoughtful, right? Like you'll never see us just put oil into a cartridge. Like it all has to be very thoughtful. Like what's the flavor? What's the naming? How's it pairing with the rest of the product lines? How are we expanding in infused pre-rolls and edibles? And how are we telling the story out of retail? You know, that's where we're really honing it. BOX HOT had all these things come together that just really struck home with the market. we're recreating that for different demographics as we launch different brands.
39:36 - Dai Truong (Arlington Capital Advisors)
That makes a lot of sense. I guess with that, I'd be curious about, you know, any missteps. We talked a lot about the success of the company. But, you know, any missteps along the way in your journey?
39:47 - Mario Naric (Motif Labs)
Oh, absolutely. Many times every day, right? You know, you don't get success without a lot of missteps. And we're not, I'm not sitting here suggesting that we knocked it out of the park. We have. I'm very proud of it. But it comes with a lot of learning.I mean, just this last year, we had a couple more hardware failures than I wanted to because we tried to expand our network into other hardware vendors and they didn't offer us the consistency that we wanted. And that really accelerated the way we test vapes. So in the last 12 months, now the way we're testing vapes, I mean, we got to talk to our chief innovation officer, but I mean, we have machines that are puffing these things, testing vapor density, testing, clogging. We have a 30 person focus group where, even if it passes the machine testing, we then beat it up in a real life application. And that all came through hiccups in a few of our product lines and debon glass gear. Proud to say we relaunched them and now they're like lowest failing vapes out of our whole portfolio.
We've launched shitty products too. We've got to rationalize a ton of SKUs. And I think we went off of intuition too much, and now we're using data, right? So again, it's like how you respond and how you learn and implement the process to get to the next level. But those missteps drive. process, right?
41:01 - Dai Truong (Arlington Capital Advisors)
And on those missteps, is there a certain criteria where you say, hey, this is too much, we're going to have to rationalize this SKU, or this is more than we're willing to spend to see if this thing is going to work? How do you kind of figure out when to keep pressing and when to kind of hit the stop button?
41:17 - Mario Naric (Motif Labs)
I think it's very collaborative and cross-departmental, right? It's, you know, what is the street saying, right? First, start with the consumer. Like, can we regain the consumer's trust? Can we regain the category manager's trust? Is there something that we can regain there, whether it's a brand or a product? And we have those conversations, right? We, you know, I personally went, you know, when we had a couple of hiccups on a few of our product lines, I called the provincial buyers with my Head of Marketing, we had conversations with them, we laid out our plan, I asked, will you support this? Yes, we'll retain your listings. Okay, then we go to the major retailers and say, look, this is our plan. So I think it's about having these open conversations to being transparent, here's how we're fixing it. Will you support us? If the answer is yes, then then send it there. If it's kind of wishy-washy and maybe we just missed the mark on product-format-fit, and it's just eating up listings that could be more productive, right? I think it's also comparing, can I take this like, you know, I tried this half gram CBD vape, and it's taking up a listing that can be like this two gram massive vape that can make me a lot of revenue. You have to do the math on that as well. So, you know, we have a lot of teams looking at that and running inventory forecasts, trade-off kind of analytics on it.
42:32 - Dai Truong (Arlington Capital Advisors)
Is there a way to measure loyalty from a consumer standpoint for you guys?
42:38 - Mario Naric (Motif Labs)
It's really hard. It's really, really hard to measure loyalty. know, it generally shows up as the way that we measure it is like. We do a lot of programming. So when you have a new product launch, you partner with some retailers and you make that product very visible. And if after that product's visible, you start to see, you know, an increased rate of sale in those stores. It means that You got their attention, you paid a little extra to get that consumer in, but now they're buying again and again and again. So generally what we do is we track the rate of sale and we track it after programming. If something has a very high rate of sale and that rate of sale gets bumped through strategic programming and it stays there, to us this has resonated. If we're investing a lot of dollars and that rate of sale just blips up when we invest the dollars and disappears when we don't, that means the product's not resonating in some way. So we really track distribution, rate of sale, pre-and-post program to say like, oh this thing has legs, let's double down on it and this thing doesn't. Is it flavor? Is it quality? What is it? And we renovate in some instances.
43:39 - Dai Truong (Arlington Capital Advisors)
Yeah, I was sort of following on social media and I was trying to look up BOX HOT on Instagram and it seems like there's a different Instagram page than the let's BOX HOT.
43:51 - Mario Naric (Motif Labs)
We get shut down, dude. We get shut down, Canada is so stringent. And then like we have a target on our back. I think our competitors report us like we're playing by the book Instagram and socials so fickle like we can't rely on that staying live because people just report it even if we follow the rules
44:00 - Dai Truong (Arlington Capital Advisors)
So even though it's legal? Because at least in the US, you could kind of complain about it because maybe you're seeing in age gated where it's not legal for adult use. I thought it was a bit more lax in Canada.
44:21 - Mario Naric (Motif Labs)
No, and it's and I think it's it's partially Instagram, I think it's partially when you're a top 10 LP, people are chasing you down and they're reporting you and they're going out of their way kind of get in the way And then I mean that's just part of the you know part of the game Right, so you got to win on the street right and that's that's where we try to win Is we went on the street with our sales folks week with with those person in person interactions like that's that's the game You have play up here. Yeah, because simply you know I'll go to brands page and see how many followers they have kind of look at the engagement Hard to do in cannabis to kind of try and compare right and see how they stack up if it's deactivated here and there Man, it's all about distribution. It's all about rate of sale in particular. were really keen on looking at rate of sale and independent accounts, right? So like, you know, these accounts that we may not be able to get to or support in a big way, like how, what affinity do they have to the brand? Because if they're carrying it in, it's because the consumers are asking for it. So we have a lot of different metrics to kind of identify this brand or this product line or this flavor is a banger and this one needs work. You know, and oftentimes like we'll launch a flavors one or two, a lag, you got to get to the root cause of it. Is it name? Is it taste and then renovate and fix it and rationalize and get something better out?
45:33 - Dai Truong (Arlington Capital Advisors)
Yeah, and on that, you know, of all the retailers that you're in, I assume you guys have pretty good data on sort of, you know, which ones are contributing to x% of sales and in which one, you know, maybe on the lower percentile of, you know, sales and then maybe you spend less time or do you spend more time on those? So on your bottom 20% for dispensaries, do you spend more time or less time?
45:53 - Mario Naric (Motif Labs)
This goes back to the way that we leverage data and Absolutely, we have to prioritize. So the way that our GMs priorities are set are based on a set of tiers, and those tiers are set based on revenue per store in our category. So Tier 1s get visited multiple times a month, Tier 2s, once a month, Tier 3s, a little bit less frequently, or they're supported through telesales. So you have to ladder that up, and you have to give the right amount of resources based on the revenue opportunity. But you need data to illuminate that, and we're getting better and better at doing that.
46:32 - Dai Truong (Arlington Capital Advisors)
Yeah, that's where it's always tricky. The retailer certainly has that point of interaction with the customers. Really, have most of that data, it seems like you have some data sharing agreement with these retailers, which seems helpful, but I'm sure that's not a complete picture. complete as you'd like, seems like for a company that loves to do R&D and A/B testing.
46:51 - Mario Naric (Motif Labs)
It's not as complete as you like, but there are, you know, bigger retailers that consolidate their data, which is useful. But then there is also these companies that are leveraging scrubbing technology. Because most retailers have a website and most of their websites are relatively up to date on inventory And so like we do have some data sources that are scrubbing kind of like the web to understand You know which of our products are in or not and so and also scrubbing just for rate of sale. So we've got good data It's not perfect, but you got to like you leverage your imperfect data to drive strategy and then and then you validate right because we have people on the Street right and so we always validate if something isn't really matching up with what we see on the data
47:32 - Dai Truong (Arlington Capital Advisors)
You know I think one of the things that I've been thinking about through this conversation is advantage of being in Canada Versus the US and sort of where your even numbers are it's probably 280E right that seems to be one of the biggest advantages that Canadian companies like yourself sort of have not not to deal with this 280E issue So help us understand, know where most of the costs may be associated with company and ask you guys try to get more profitable, you know, where's that gonna come from?
47:58 - Mario Naric (Motif Labs)
Oh Great. I mean, a great question. I mean, I think a good business needs to kind of find it everywhere, right? But like, you know, I think if you look at our 2024 plans and where we have stretch targets, we have to leverage our scale, right? So we now have scale to implement automation. So we've got a very strong Ops team that's like implementing automation to drive that production cost down. When it comes to sales and marketing, we spend a lot of money to support our brands. And truly, I know that we're not spending it as efficiently as we can. And so right now we're building up, we have business intelligence.
We're just about to hire a CFO and really consolidate business intelligence and sales finance type work under that CFO because it's like, not all dollar sales are equal. In terms of per province per promotion. And so really where we're going to drive our profitability is two things is, Ensure everything we launch is supported with as much testing to ensure the quality, the flavor is there. The biggest thing that screws your profitability up is a terrible product. If they pay every time you ship a product, the buy-back consumer, that kills it. And so we've taken that up a complete knot. Nothing's getting shipped unless 30 people have said it's fantastic and it's gone through rigorous testing. And then it's using the data that I kind of keep talking about to say like, should I be spending X amount of dollars on retailer promos in Alberta versus Ontario vs. B.C.? You know, what's the benefit of sampling versus swag engagement, really driving that dollar to the highest ROI, you know, is where it's going to take us to the next level.
49:33 - Dai Truong (Arlington Capital Advisors)
Yeah, so it sounds like you guys have a handle on that today, but just need to optimize this ROI. So where can I go and spend a million bucks and know exactly how that's going to impact revenue, how that's going to impact EBITDA
49:49 - Mario Naric (Motif Labs)
Absolutely. CFO and a couple of Analytics. I think if you look at, you know, what our forecasts have, which is, you know, low double digit EBITDA this coming year, I mean, I think just leveraging, you know, leveraging a new Chief Manufacturing Officer who's taken over like running the factory and leveraging the CFO in their org on the optimizing of more of that consumer facing spend. there's another three, four, five points that we can find just through getting a lot more intelligent, right? And that's what it takes. You have to look at everything. You have to look at everything and question everything. That's what we do.
50:24 - Dai Truong (Arlington Capital Advisors)
So you know, in summary through this conversation, MOTIF, #1 Market Share for a private Canadian company. You guys have, north of $100 million [in sales]. I think that's Canadian, but probably US as well this year in revenue. Call it double digit EBITDA margins, optimizing a ton of things, meaning market share. What other challenges are you focusing on for the next 12 to 24 months?
50:49 - Mario Naric (Motif Labs)
I think it's just fighting off the threats that threaten those numbers and forecasts. We're still very challenged there. There are a lot of larger LPs with. balance sheets where they're willing to kind of play a price game, right? And that creates a lot of, you know, when you launch a product, I'm one of the tightest extractors in the country. And if I were to put that price into my model, like it's not delivering a gross margin that yields profitability, like there's no way around it, right? And so, you know, we have to be more intelligent because I'm not willing to drop, you know, my pricing by a certain amount. And so we have to play a more intelligent game. That is a big, big challenge. But that's where MOTIF has succeeded so far. It's not new. It's just that we're still fighting that challenge.
I think another key thing is that infused pearls are a very complex product line. We're vape experts. We're very good at infused pearls. But a heavy focus of ours is to have more control over how we manufacture those. They're super dynamic, you got to inject them with oil, you got to put terpenes in there, you got to coat keef on it. It's like a multi-step process compared to a vape. And so really honing that and making sure every product is fantastic. is going to be critical in us getting to where we need to go. We have way more vendors working for us now. We're insourcing portions of that. And we're going to start rolling our own joints, keep coding our own joints, and not solely relying on partners is critical. So look, there's challenges everywhere, And what I tell you today might change next month, but it's just responding quickly and knowing when they're coming for you.
52:25 - Dai Truong (Arlington Capital Advisors)
What's interesting to me about that is I thought most of these Canadian LPs may not be playing that pricing game, just given everyone's trying to optimize costs. You see the headlines with Canopy Growth, having to raise $35 million here and $25 million there. You see Tilray focus more on average and more on beer. I assume that the deep pockets you may be referencing might be an organic gram. So I actually thought the Canadian LPs were a bit distracted or maybe don't have the margins to play that pricing game. So it's interesting that you mentioned that.
52:54 - Mario Naric (Motif Labs)
So it's funny you say that. Because the good news is that two years ago there was like 15-20 companies willing to do that Right. And now there are three or four, you know, and so that's surmountable because these retailers can accomplish their goals with three or four LPs. So if you have a good smart product, that's great like you're not getting completely shut out of the conversation so like But like in the last three four months, I mean, you know these folks That have reasonable flower market share have made some very aggressive moves, unprofitable moves on the on the 2.0 side and look we're responding. We're not concerned about it But we have to be aware of it and we have our plans, right? But it's not over yet, man. It's not over yet, I think you know, I think there's still you know, there's still some reckoning this year like some have cleaned up shop. But some are still making some very Interesting moves that I can't really wrap my head around.
54:00 - Dai Truong (Arlington Capital Advisors)
Well one that I hope you give us some insights to is so, know mentioned Organigram, obviously big news with taking money from British American Tobacco, look at their brands and just you know without knowing much about their brand And sources your brands yours sort of pop a lot more even I think their top brand is shred I think you know any of your brands pop a bit more So help us understand that deal and you know Did you guys get a similar deal or why you know them and not you or why them versus anyone else that's operating in Canada with brands?
54:24 - Mario Naric (Motif Labs)
The deal meaning the additional funding?
54:30 - Dai Truong (Arlington Capital Advisors)
Yeah, like like why did you know British Mary tobacco choose organic Integram versus anyone else in the market, know, I that's someone who's in that market day-to-day Just you know, I wanted to see if you have any insights
54:39 - Mario Naric (Motif Labs)
That's a great question. I mean look I mean, you know, they've been aligned for a long time right B at in our Gantagram and they have a very you know aligned strategy, you know, they this isn't the first time they've invested You know, so there's an element of Doubling down on on something that you're already participating in You know a long-standing relationship I mean that the nature of that investment is also very interesting. It seems to be targeted towards funding maybe acquisitions or R&D, and almost using organic areas of vehicle to kind of advance BATs participation in the industry.
Why not MOTIF? I think there's a couple of elements to that. I mean, look, we've been very inwardly focused. We have our shareholder group that's taken care of us, and we're trying to achieve our numbers. I think MOTIF hasn't really gotten very outwardly focused yet in terms of finding Strategics. And so that's a little bit by design. But it's interesting, right? I mean, there's still a long way to go on profitability. Revenues are declining with some of these bigger LPs and profitability isn't on the horizon, and the brands are losing affinity.
I think we can do a lot this year. I'm very confident. I mean, our brands are a lot better. But I think what's key is our team is very dedicated, man. I mean, I'm the Founder. lot of the people that are running this place are from my network. This is not a company where there's like, I'm the fifth CEO and everybody's waiting for their layoff. Like, we never laid anybody off. Like, I'm in the trenches. My C suites in the trenches. We give a . Everybody gives a shit . A lot of the key leadership is an owner in the business. And like, we're super tight, right? And that's our advantage. It's a private business of a bunch of people that care. I care about my people. They care about me. mean, go beyond motif, a lot of them. And, you know, we're able to move fast. Whereas a lot of these companies, I mean. You know, you're on CEO #4 or #5. Like, you're just another cog in the wheel and it's hard to kind of get bought into that vision. I think.
56:36 - Dai Truong (Arlington Capital Advisors)
Yeah. I kind of assumed that was sort of the answer as well. Just doubling down on things, right? A lot of these Strategics have come into cannabis, especially with Canadian LPs. And kind of said, hey, this is our bet. when the bet don't make sense to outsiders, it seems like they just keep plowing more money into it, right?
56:56 - Mario Naric (Motif Labs)
I mean, I think we're one thing, you know, you're spot on. And I think, you know, a lot. People are going to start waking up and looking at real results. Speculations aisdead and it’s all about execution. I hope and I believe that the people that are looking to jump into the space are going to get lot smarter about it and pick the companies that have proven that they can execute versus, you know, proven that they could tell a, you know, good hypothetical story, right? And, you know, I'm optimistic that those tides are turning this year and into next for sure.
57:25 - Dai Truong (Arlington Capital Advisors)
Yeah, and I think it's great that you point out that you are the original Founder and CEO and you remain to this day because CEO transition, whether that's Canada or US. Most of these bigger companies happen way too often. So that's a great differentiator that usually you don't see outside of Cannabis.
57:43 - Mario Naric (Motif Labs)
Yeah, man. This isn't my job. This is like my life, right? And, know, for a lot of people that work for me, I mean, it's more than just a job for them as well, right? That goes a long way. I don't think people talk about that, but having your people care about your business, care about the vision, be bought into the vision. I mean, that is what's going to make the difference, you know, and we protect that at all costs.
58:04 - Dai Truong (Arlington Capital Advisors)
Right, just from a business standpoint, employee turnover is very costly. You know, recruiters and benefits and termination fees. So it's a benefit to the business as well on that front.
58:16 - Mario Naric (Motif Labs)
Win-win all across for sure.
58:19 - Dai Truong (Arlington Capital Advisors)
Awesome. Well, thanks for joining. Really helpful to understand more about the company and look forward to what you guys do this year and beyond.
58:26 - Mario Naric (Motif Labs)
Really appreciate it. appreciate the thoughtful questions and I appreciate your time.Look forward to meeting up outside of the podcast soon again.
58:30 - Dai Truong (Arlington Capital Advisors)
Yeah, well, I'll get together at the next trade show you're at.